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creating space part two

more pieces…

*mormons: i chatted with a couple recently, then left with these thoughts: they way i perceive them and their fanaticism, is this the way others (those who aren’t disciples of Christ) see me? and if so, what does this mean for the way i live and tell His story?

*bazan concert: i’m pissed. i was very jealous of bazan at the show for this reason: he has a repetoire of songs that he showcases from town to town, perhaps tweaking the song list from show to show…meanwhile…as church communicators we’ve got to come up with some good new stuff weekly. to do justice to the text is this even possible or perhaps is it plausible?

hmphh…

jer and i recorded a podcast this morning including some of this stuff. should be up soon.

Filed by Joe at February 16th, 2007 under Rants

I heard about a Salavation Army dude that used to travel around and preach all over the place. The story goes that he only has (had?) 6 messages. I believe he would tweak things from “gig” to “gig”. Possibly using differnt analogies and illustrations depending on the crowd but still delivering the same message(s).

Comment by Steve J — February 16, 2007 @ 3:01 pm

hey steve…

not an uncommon thing. a few ringer sermons and any dufus and hit the road. but does work in a local context…not so much…

Comment by Joe — February 16, 2007 @ 8:17 pm

maybe that’s why us pastors aren’t really ‘getting it’ yet
cause we have to ‘come up with some good new stuff’ weekly.
seriously the more i question it the more i’m convinced that maybe just coming up with stuff is in vain.

Comment by nathan — February 17, 2007 @ 12:37 am

like it or not, a pastor has to come up with something on a weekly basis…

Comment by Joe — February 17, 2007 @ 6:39 am

and there are two differences…
1) musicians perform… pastors teach
2) those pastors who see their message as a performance/entertainment are doing so for the same “audience” each week and therefore have to try to come up with something that’s going to wow the crowd; something that sells.

so, maybe it reduces a little bit of the pressure to think that as a preacher of the Bible, one needs to ask not “will people enjoy this” or “will this go over well”, but rather, how can i teach this in a clear and truthful fashion? i understand this still takes creativity, but the focus is more on content and less on delivery… a massive shift away from the values of the seeker church/church growth movement…

just some thoughts.

Comment by aaron — February 18, 2007 @ 2:22 pm

aaron:

musicians perform/pastors teach: i get that, and agree with the dichotomy, but the way things are set up in this current church age where ‘the word’ is the height of the formal gathering i see the line between performance and teaching as blurred. not that this is necessarily a good thing or an all bad thing, just observation.

content: dicey term. care to explain what you mean by this word? :)

Comment by Joe — February 20, 2007 @ 7:02 pm

While I can’t speak on behalf of Aaron I can interject my own thoughts and interpretation.

I remember a wise person telling me once that “substance trumps style”. I believe this is what Aaron is getting at regarding content. A message can be delivered in conjunction with amazing video clips in an environment that is dressed to suite the theme of the sermon but if the sermon “content” is crap then the video clips and design of the room/chapel is pretty much a waste of time.

I only say this because of an experience at a gathering I attended. I’ll share my story.

I think the theme of the night had to do with death. The tables had little, buisness card sized, pieces of paper in the shape of tombstones. There was a dead/dying dandelion in the middle of the table. When I went to the bathroom there was a black board on the wall that had been covered with images of death (eg. tombstones, epitaphs). I remember a duet of “The Night Pat Murphy Died” (Great Big Sea) performed by a couple guys. I seem to remember there being a video clip of a scene from the movie Tombstone. It was the scene of The Shootout at O.K. Corral. And I also remember the girl who did the annoucements was dressed as a cowgirl complete with hat and boots and a sweet cap gun she shot a couple times.

That was long.

Anyhow.

I barely even remember what the sermon was about. I want to say it had something to do with the legacy we leave behind or something. We probably were supposed to write something on that little tomstone shaped piece of paper.

Are you seeing my point? All that time and effort into making the whole night uber thematic for what? Style was prevalent but substance lacked. It was weak. Sure everything followed the theme of death but did the message really hit home? Not really.

Of course had they not gone to all that effort to thematisize (I’m making up words at this point) the evening I probably wouldn’t remember anything about that night. I would have struggled to stay awake during the sermon and it would have been like so many other church services I’m been a part of.

I’ll leave it at that, for now…

Comment by Steve J — February 21, 2007 @ 3:14 pm

joe, i think was i was getting at with the word “content” (by the way, this is the only time i’ll play your semantics game) :) is when preparing a message you have a couple of questions you’re asking, i’m sure. “What am i trying to say?” (content) and “How am i going to say it?” (creativity/delivery/etc)… i’m 100% for creativity in speaking a message, and i believe that God was absolutely creative in the ways he has spoken to his people throughout history (have you ever given a message by way of a donkey or a burning bush?)… God loves creativity. i think what i was mainly reacting against (dare I say venting?) was the messages we’ve all sat and listened to that were so focused on being creative, or coming up with something new (i.e. entertainment) that they really failed to say anything at all. the end result ends up in nothing more than what sprinklebrigade.com (the beautiful site you directed our attention to a couple months ago) has to offer…

you said: “but the way things are set up in this current church age where ‘the word’ is the height of the formal gathering i see the line between performance and teaching as blurred”

and i guess my quick reaction with that is that you/we have the ability to redeem this, don’t we? does it have to be this way, where teaching and performing are blurring together? (honest questions, not sure what the answer is…)

anyway, i hate trying to have good discussions via blogs/email/internet… i’d rather chat this stuff out in person. you coming to BC anytime soon? :)

Comment by aaron — February 21, 2007 @ 3:28 pm

Hey I have had in the past, an unreasoned prejudice against the mormon faith, until an aquaintance of mine ,whom I found out later was of the mormon faith, helped guide my spiritual formation. His biblical knowledge and his understanding of God’s will was for me transformational. He is perhaps one of the most spiritual people I know. If I truly have an open mind and faith that God works through all forms of christianity. I have to be open to at least a conversation even if my we do not agree on matters. There are people of all walks of life who interpret scripture in ways that seem fanatical and frankly a little nuts from my perspective. To blanket a whole community based on my limited ignorance is not part of the kingdom of God but my fear which paralyzes me from moving towards the vast diversity of mankind.
Oh yeah ….. Watch “New York Dolls” a documentary

Comment by Jason — March 5, 2007 @ 4:11 pm

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